the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
Pris.
Well there was a SCHEDULE in place you know? Who had authority to change the schedule? Who would dare? All perfectly understandable.
Ultimately its the responsibility of each person to say :
"Im mad as hell and Im not going to take this anymore"......stand up....go to your window.....OPEN your window and shout "IM MAD AS HELL AND IM NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE".
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
Yes, it appears a zombified state of boredom subconsciously registering a monotonous liturgy also works fine in brainwashing the masses . Not a very exciting method to be sure. Not much in the way of "having your ears tickled". Not very clever of the cult drones to NEVER consider that there might be other more varied information out there. but effective none the less. It worked for Jim jones. Drone on the speaker system while the members sweated under the sun until they fainted from boredom and/ or fatigue. Its more a mothod applied by a cult that doesnt give any kind of a damn about human feelings and suffering at all. Its impossible that the guy who started the fatigue brainwashing technique wasnt aware that his audience was dying of boredom......he just didnt care.
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
The 'religious experience' of Guy Chevreau, it happened at the Vineyard church in Toronto.
Book "Catch the Fire".
The night before, Chevreaus wife, Janis, had failed to cook a proper meal because she was totally 'slain in spirit' and couldnt function for laughing.
She served greasy fish and chips,"tossing" pieces of fish in the families general directions, and laughing her ass off.
Chevreau was grossly annoyed.
Next day:
"I came forward for prayer...I went down yeilding to feelings of weakness and heaviness.I lay there thinking 'the guy that prayed for me had a pretty heavy hand, did I get pushed'?
When I came forward for prayer the next time, I was in a bad mood.
Again I lay there,I said. "God I dont care if this is you or not, Im so tired Im just going to lie here a while".
The third time Janis was on the floor , loony tunes,again. Randy prayed over me, very gently, very quietly, and I went over feeling too tired to stand any longer.
As I lay there I started weeping. Wailing if the truth be told, for 40 minutes."
Guess what happened next?
"Later that afternoon I heard in my spirit, a spoken commission from the Lord, clearer than Ive ever heard the Lord speak before"
JGnat / a classic conversion scenario there. Entirely typical.
the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.
they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.
the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.
JGnat. You never dither, so dont respond to such a ludicruous bait.
As to "logic" getting them in, I agree, I suppose. Most of the other groups Ive had a look at use mass hysteria and emotional manipulation in the conversion process. The dubs use step by step "logical" reasoning as laid out in a study book. When I say "emotional manipulation" i mean most other groups seek to elicit a point of emotional breakdown and collapse into tears. The dubs, far as I know, dont do this. Truly, a departure from the general method of conversion.
we were always taught that in the new world mankind would reach perfection (clean thoughts, ultimate health, perfect food).
my thing is that there is no such thing as perfection.
life wasn't perfect, even at the beginning.
perfection will be when you pluck the pear off the tree and its taste and texture is entirely the fullfillment of your exact want. In that perfect place, you will not crave for McDonalds and will smile at the thought that you ever were addicted to it or thought it pleasant at all. In that place you will not desire to listen to the rapp music of "TT Hubba hubba J Doggy" and you will not even be able to specifically recall what it sounded like, nor will you have the inclination to remember. Sweet smells will fill your nostrils constantly, and the wafting of flowers in the breeze will please your eye every moment of the day.
let me start out by saying that i would like nothing better than to see the society totally disappear one day and lose its controlling grip upon its members.
this forum is probably one of the most frequented sites for doubting jws and lurkers so i think it is important to be as skilled at combating the witnesses as is possible.
not every argument made against someone or something is a good one.
All those organizational publications are only words in a book. Hundreds of people read the book, and every one of them puts their own little slant on things. We saw an example recently where 'amazing" posted about a CO who told him the 144,000 had to have 'celestail sex' with Jesus in heaven. Hundreds of people will read the term "celestial sex" and will put their own slant on that. The organization is rigid about many things, such as shunning apostates, but with that ruling there are active dubs that will openly chat with a df person as though nothing ever happened. individuals putting their own interp onto doctrine. So its no surprise people here recite contradictory experiences.
just thought id share with you.
any tips on dealing with them would be greatly appreciated..thanks!
yesterday, i had two lovely young men at my door - they were mormons.
Experiences within Mormonism do seem to vary. I, personally, was highly pressurized into taking the step of Mormon baptism very soon after they first met me. Others experience it differently. So its possible that one person can say one thing and another relate a different experience.
Being an "Elder" in the mormon church is no big deal, neither is being in the "Aaronic priesthood" , Far as I understand it every 12 year old is in the "Aaronic" priesthood. The MELCHIZADEK priesthood is a different matter. Thats the real status symbol for rank and file in the church. Being a "bishop" means you are a "presiding overseer".
Mormons have many interesting beliefs.-- Baptism for the dead. Multiple levels of heaven wherein all will be saved but only SOME will reign as gods. A preexistant heavenly existance where you agreed to come to earth in a body. And Adam as "Michael the Archangel". Mormons believe that there was a disagreement in heaven and the council decided that "Michael" would come to earth as Adam,adam would sin and then we could all experience the experience of Sin and Redemption,Apparently, in Mormon lore, Adam was the first man to recieve the Melchizadek priesthood and he passed it on to his righteous posterity while he lived in Missouri USA.That was after he got kicked out of Eden.
becoming a cult leader is not as tough as you might think.
all it takes is a little charisma and some insecure, feeble-minded followers.
the reasons you might wanna become one are many -- it pays well (and all of it tax-exempt), you get lotsa nookie, you can get other people to do your laundry, etc..
."then there are the prophecies in the wee hours that keep them captivated. "...
Ahh. Lawrence, you have BEEN there, I can tell. They do love to "sleep dep" people dont they? Most of the groups I was in ,ultimately, were searching the universal "vibrations" for a sign or message. In other words they are channelling and the vibrations are most vibratory at 3, 4 am and often thats when the most important truths are made known. Hence the need for sleeplessness.
Sighs for the good old days.
or do you know anyone thats been on tv?
the year i left the jws i decided to keep a low profile for a while but got asked if i wanted to take part in the birmingham "feed the homeless" plight for christmas.
didnt sound too bad, 'what the eck' i thought, 'stuff the turkeys, i'll do it'.
I got on TV as an apostate dub on TV about, oh, 5 years ago. It was a 45 minute BBC type show about current affairs, subject matter - "Jehovahs Witlesses and blood transfussions". I got a whole 7 minutes of screen time and managed to get a couple of good points in and raise one idea that the interviewer asked a dub spokesperson at Ozzie headquarters. So I was gratified. Managed to slip in a bit about false prophecy too.
Kick em where they live.
for the last 20 years of my association with the jws, i was, more or less, a hypocrite.
they taught things i didn't believe, but i went to the meetings and, by my presence there and by my "non-answers" i in essence supported something that i didn't believe.. it's a hard thing to say "i was a hypocrite.".
i was.. craig
Well Craig, without placing myself in a verbally contradictory situation:
I believe self deception is widespread. I also believe that everyone contradicts themselves. I believe everyone LIES. I must lie, or half lie, a dozen times a day on the job. So to call a person a liar or to say they are contradictory, actually, means nothing to me, for i think all men lie frequently and contradict themselves frequently. I believe these things are a product of the working of the human mind and are unavoidable.
I also believe there are people who are convinced in their own minds that they do not lie and do not contradict themselves.
To me, such people are self decieved and live in illusion.
Follow?
